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Le management interculturel chez Bookoff France

( Télécharger le fichier original )
par David VANDEPONTSEELE
Université de Paris 7 - Master de recherche en étude japonaise 2008
  

précédent sommaire

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Annexe 2 : Interview de M. Yoshinaga Toshihiko, responsable de BOOKOFF France.

Retranscription de l'interview de Mr Toshihiko Yoshinaga, patron de la boutique BOOKOFF à Paris. (Version Japonaise)

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Retranscription de l'interview de Mr Toshihiko Yoshinaga, patron de la boutique BOOKOFF à Paris. (Version Française)

Question 1 : Que faisiez-vous avant de venir en France ?

Avant de venir en France, je travaillais chez BOOKOFF où je suis entré en 1996, [il y a] 13 ans. Pendant ces 13 ans ... au Japon il y a les arubaito et les autres salariés, au début je suis entré sous le statut d'arubaito, j'ai travaillé 5 ans, et puis je suis devenu salarié, cela fait donc 8 ans. Donc, avant de venir au Japon133(*), j'ai travaillé en tant que chef de boutique dans 3 boutiques, ensuite je suis devenu Area Manager, c'est une personne qui supervise des points de ventes, pendant 2 ans j'ai ouvert 13 boutiques.

Question 2 : Comment vous est venue l'idée de venir en France ?

Yoshinaga Toshihiko\u-230\u-230FDans la zone dont j'étais responsable, il y a eu un employé qui voulait aller à l'étranger, comme il en avait fait le souhait, nous avons eu l'occasion d'en parler avec le responsable [de BOOKOFF] en outre mer, et j'en ai profité pour dire que moi aussi j'avais envie de partir à l'étranger ...
David Vandepontseele : Ah bon ? Mais pourquoi la France ? Il y a des boutiques aussi aux États-Unis ...
Yoshinaga Toshihiko: Oui, à l'époque, c'était que je voulais aller dans une filière Européenne, pas particulièrement la France. Londres et l'Allemagne étaient candidates. Au moment où j'ai voulu partir, c'était justement le moment où mon prédécesseur, il s'appelle Hino, est rentré au Japon, et c'est comme ça que je me suis retrouvé ici.
David Vandepontseele : Vous aviez un quelconque intérêt pour la France au début ?
Yoshinaga Toshihiko: A vrai dire, pas vraiment. Je voulais travailler en Europe ... en tout cas ailleurs qu'au Japon. A l'université j'ai étudié la musique ...
David Vandepontseele : Ah bon ? Le piano ?
Yoshinaga Toshihiko: Le chant. Je suis donc venu en France souvent, pour mes études. C'est pourquoi j'aime l'Europe ...
David Vandepontseele : Vous devez avoir visité beaucoup d'endroits, n'est ce pas ? Comme Prague ?
Yoshinaga Toshihiko: Je n'ai jamais été à Prague, mais j'ai été à Londres, en Italie, et puis en Autriche, ...

Question 3 : Quels avantages aviez vous à venir en France ?

Je peux mieux répartir mon temps comme tous les dimanches sont des jours de congés. Au Japon, on est assez flexible, on peut en principe gérer notre propre emploi du temps et notre temps de repos, mais quoi qu'on fasse si le travail vient à s'accumuler, comme on doit finir le travail avant tout, il est arrivé qu'il soit difficile de prendre congé. En France, chaque semaine on essaie de terminer le travail pour le samedi. Dans ce sens, c'est un bon côté, j'ai pu répartir mon temps.

Question 4 : Avez-vous eu des désavantages à venir en France ? Au niveau familial ou dans votre mariage ?

Yoshinaga Toshihiko\u-230\u-230FPas particulièrement parce que je ne suis pas marié
David Vandepontseele : Vous êtes une personne indépendante. (rires)
Yoshinaga Toshihiko\u-230\u-230FOui (rires)
David Vandepontseele : C'est une question indiscrète mais quel âge avez-vous ?
Yoshinaga Toshihiko : J'ai 35 ans.
[...]

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Question 5 :\u12288\u12288@Je voudrais maintenant vous posez des questions sur les différences des techniques de management entre BOOKOFF au Japon et BOOKOFF en France. Il y en a probablement beaucoup, c'est pourquoi j'aimerais que nous les traitions point par point, si cela vous convient.

Planification

Yoshinaga Toshihiko : Vous voulez dire le chiffre d'affaire ?
David Vandepontseele :\u12288\u12288@Euh ... par exemple ?
Yoshinaga Toshihiko : Ce n'est pas tellement différent

Processus décisionnel

Et bien je pense que les fondements ne change pas tellement. Nous avons une politique, et nous la suivons. Bien-sûr, la loi est différente, donc dans certains domaines, cela change mais pas fondamentalement.

Prévision

Yoshinaga Toshihiko : Dans cette boutique, dans les boutiques à l'étranger, à part la deuxième boutique de Paris, à la base, ... Parlons un peu de BOOKOFF au Japon, d'accord ? Au Japon, on rachète les livres directement aux clients, puis on vend [ces livres]. Dans chaque magasin, le personnel achète des articles, et les vend. Ils les achètent, les étiquettent, et les mettent en rayon, et c'est ce que l'on vend, en quelque sorte...
Dans l'autre boutique134(*), plus ou moins la moitié des livres que nous vendons sont importés du Japon. Bien-sûr il y a des clients qui nous apportent des livres, mais la moitié des articles en magasin sont importés du Japon. C'est une différence avec le BOOKOFF du Japon. En général, le travail du chef de boutique c'est de réfléchir à comment vendre plus de livres, ici on doit penser quels types de livres manquent et quelle quantité on doit en importer. Cette partie est un peu différente. Il y a 10 points de ventes en outremer, et à part cette boutique, c'est comme ça partout.


David Vandepontseele : Comment choisissez vous ces livres ?
Yoshinaga Toshihiko : En général, chez BOOKOFF, on a des classifications pour les livres. Prenons par exemple les mangas. Dans la catégorie des mangas, on a différentes sortes [de mangas] que l'on classe en fonction des épaisseurs. Par conséquent, on ne demande pas un livre, mais une sorte de livre. En fait, on a juste à choisir la quantité [à importer] ...
C'est ce qui se passe dans les magasins en dehors du Japon. Au Japon, il y a une entreprise, l'équivalent de FedEx ici, qui vient prendre les livres que les clients veulent envoyer. On a un centre qui s'occupe de les gérer et d'en évaluer la qualité. On envoie le prix au client, et si le client est d'accord, on lui vire l'argent. Malheureusement on ne peut pas encore faire ça en France, mais ces livres sont exportés en outremer, ou envoyés dans des grands points de vente au Japon.
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David Vandepontseele : Vous arrive-t-il de faire l'inverse ?
Yoshinaga Toshihiko : Un peu, il nous est arrivé d'exporter des choses achetées en France au Japon. Combien de fois ?... 5 ou 6 fois.

Mobiliser

Yoshinaga Toshihiko :\u12288\u12288@Vraiment, ça ne change pas beaucoup par rapport au Japon. Après tout, ceux qui travaillent dans les boutiques ... J'ai l'impression qu'en France si l'on travaille comme caissière dans un super marché, on ne s'occupera que de la caisse, si on travaille comme magasinier, on ne s'occupera que de l'approvisionnement. Mais ici, en pratique, comme les boutiques sont petites, chacun doit être polyvalent et tout le monde est capable de racheter des livres aux clients, d'étiqueter les livres, ou de les mettre en rayon. En plus ils le font avec beaucoup de conscience, ce qui m'aide beaucoup. [...]

Evaluation

Yoshinaga Toshihiko\u-230\u-230FNous en faisons ici aussi. Nous avons un système où le salaire change en fonction des évaluations, au Japon comme en France, nous l'appliquons de la même manière.
David Vandepontseele  : J'ai lu le livre Okâsan shachô ga iku « Maman devient présidente de l'entreprise », où on parle de [ce plan] à 7 étages ... comment s'appelle-t- il déjà ?
Yoshinaga Toshihiko : Oui, le Carreer Pass Plan.
David Vandepontseele : Oui, c'est ça. Excusez-moi. Et en France ...
Yoshinaga Toshihiko : Nous le faisons aussi.

Techniques de motivation

Yoshinaga Toshihiko : C'est probablement pareil qu'au Japon, je crois.
David Vandepontseele : Ah, comme on pouvait s'y attendre, les Français qui travaillent ici connaissent bien la culture japonaise ?
Yoshinaga Toshihiko : Au début, parler japonais était une condition [d'embauche], mais récemment, on ne demande plus aux postulants s'ils peuvent parler japonais. Je pense que nous ne voulons pas nous afficher comme une entreprise japonaise, nous voulons appliquer notre système japonais en France. Par conséquent, je pense que nous voulons l'adapter à la France. Le responsable de cette boutique et de l'autre sont tous les deux entrés en tant que staff, et sont devenus chefs de boutiques. Si on fait de son mieux, le nombre de boutique va augmenter, et les possibilités vont s'élargir.

David Vandepontseele : Y a-t-il un lien avec les relations de sempai à kôhai ?
Yoshinaga Toshihiko : Non, je ne pense pas particulièrement. Mais, les gens qui travaillent bien... c'est évident, ceux qui sont rentrés avant, ont plus d'expérience, mais ce n'est pas pour ça qu'une personne rentrée après a moins de chance de devenir chef de boutique.
David Vandepontseele : Ah bon ? Mais le fait que vous motiviez les travailleurs français comme les travailleurs japonais, cela m'étonne. Ne dit-on pas souvent des Français qu'ils sont, pour faire ma mauvaise langue, paresseux ?
Yoshinaga Toshihiko : Après 2 ans passés ici, je pense que quel que soit le pays, les gens qui veulent travailler, travaillent, ceux qui ne veulent pas travailler ne travaillent pas. Je ne pense pas du tout que ça soit particulier aux Français.

Arbitrer les conflits

Yoshinaga Toshihiko : Lorsque nous avons un conflit, comme on peut s'y attendre je pense, nous en avons, nous écoutons attentivement ce qu'on a à nous dire, et nous répondons le mieux possible, je pense que c'est ce qu'il y a de mieux à faire.
David Vandepontseele : Ah bon ? Peut-être que je devrais travailler chez vous, si tout le monde est aussi sympathique. (rires)

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Question 6 : Que pensez-vous sur le fait d'employer des salariés français ?

Ce qui est plus difficile par rapport au Japon, c'est que le coût de la main d'oeuvre est plus élevé. Je pense que la charge qu'est de payer la sécurité sociale est un peu lourde. Sur ce point, au Japon, on a le statut de salarié mais on a aussi beaucoup de ce qu'on appelle les arubaito, le coût de la main d'oeuvre est beaucoup moins élevé, quelle que soit l'entreprise, je pense que le coût de la main d'oeuvre est maintenu bas. En France, il n'existe que le CDD et le CDI, n'est ce pas ? Dans une certaine mesure la somme à investir est plus élevée aussi, pour une entreprise cela coûte plus cher de s'installer [ici] qu'au Japon.

Question 7 : Ne trouvez-vous pas les Français individualistes ?

Peut être que dans l'ensemble c'est probablement vrai. Il y a des choses assez difficiles. Ils ne sont pas extrêmement individualistes, bien-sûr il y a beaucoup de gens comme ça au Japon de nos jours, en réalité je ne pense pas que ce soit la totalité [des Français]. Simplement, les Français, se permettent de dire tout ce qu'ils pensent car ils se moquent du qu'en-dira-t-on, ce que je pense c'est que... vous voyez ? Les Japonais ne disent pas généralement ce qu'ils pensent ... D'un autre côté, le fait qu'ils expriment ce qu'ils pensent permet de mieux les comprendre. C'est une bonne chose. Les Japonais ne s'expriment pas, il arrive qu'on ne sache pas ce qu'ils pensent. Surtout quand on travaille en tant que chef de boutique, lorsqu'on se demande ce que pensent les employés, il y a des fois où ils nous le disent et on comprend, et il y a surtout des fois où ils ne nous disent rien, et où on ne comprend pas. On finit par penser certaines choses. Ici, on n'a pas besoin de se faire de soucis, du coup je me demande si ce n'est pas plus simple. Bien-sûr on doit répondre à ce qu'il nous est dit, et pour ça il faut réfléchir mais bon ...

Question 8\u-230\u-230FEst-ce que vous sortez entre collègues en France ?

Yoshinaga Toshihiko :\u12288\u12288@Oui, parfois.
David Vandepontseele :\u12288\u12288@Ca vous arrive plus souvent au Japon qu'en France ?
Yoshinaga Toshihiko :\u12288\u12288@Au Japon, les heures d'ouvertures sont plus longues, c'est donc difficile [de sortir] tous ensemble. Nous travaillons jusqu'à minuit. Mais c'est vrai qu'en France, c'est plus rare.
David Vandepontseele :\u12288\u12288@Ah, c'est dommage.
Yoshinaga Toshihiko :\u12288\u12288@Bof, si on a envie d'aller boire un verre, on y va.

Question 9\u-230\u-230FOn dit souvent des Français que lorsqu'ils travaillent, ils travaillent, mais lorsqu'ils ne sont pas au travail, ils oublient les relations de supérieur à subalterne. En d'autres mots, ils considèrent leur sphère professionnelle différente de leur sphère privée. Que pensez-vous de cette rupture ?

Je pense que les deux sont essentiels. L'équilibre est extrêmement important. Si on ne communique pas, on ne peut pas effectuer correctement le travail. Par exemple si je propose d'aller boire un verre à quelqu'un, s'il ne vient pas je pense que c'est généralement un problème de relations interpersonnelles. Si la personne aime sortir, elle viendra sûrement (rires). Je pense qu'il faudrait peut-être créer [ce lien]. Mais je ne pense pas que cela ait à voir avec le fait d'être en France ou au Japon. On sort avec ses amis, non ? On ne peut probablement pas dire que le travail c'est comme être avec des amis, il y a beaucoup de choses qui sont discutées. Mais si je propose de sortir à quelqu'un, et qu'il refuse, je pense que c'est parce que cette personne n'arrive pas à créer des relations interpersonnelles. Je pense que c'est une tâche que doit accomplir l'entreprise, à l'intérieur de ses boutiques. C'est quelque chose qu'on devrait creuser. Si on ne faisait que ça, même si on devenait tous amis, je pense que ça poserait problème au niveau du travail. Je pense qu'il faut trouver un juste milieu. Mais finalement je crois que c'est un problème de sociabilité. Si on aime ce que l'on fait, même si le salaire est bas, on continue de travailler. Si on n'aime pas ce que l'on fait, même si on est bien payé ... peut être que si on est bien payé on ne peut pas arrêter mais ce n'est pas sur que l'on continuera. C'est pour ça que je pense que les personnes avec qui on peut apprendre comment aimer son travail, ce qui est important pour soi, partager ces choses-là à travers le travail et y réfléchir ensemble, sont des personnes importantes.

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Question 10\u-230\u-230FQu'est ce qui est le plus important pour vous : Avoir confiance en un employé ou ses résultats ?

Les deux (rires).

Je pense que pour pouvoir avoir confiance en quelqu'un il faut qu'il donne de bons résultats. C'est obligatoire. Et puis je pense que tenir ses promesses est une marque de confiance. Si vous me demandez sur quoi je me base pour évaluer ces résultats, si on considère que c'est le chiffre d'affaire ou les bénéfices, ceux qui arrivent à faire plus que ce qu'on ne leur avait demandé sont pour moi dignes de confiance.

Je pense que les deux sont importants. Mais cela ne veut pas dire qu'on est prêt à tout pour faire des résultats. Par exemple, on ne veut pas aller en travers de la loi pour faire du chiffre, je ne pense pas que ça soit une bonne façon de faire. Mais vu qu'on est une entreprise, je pense qu'il y a des moments où quoi qu'on fasse les résultats sont importants. Parce que s'il ne reste rien dans les caisses, alors l'entreprise ne restera pas ...

Question 11\u-230\u-230FY a-t-il quelque chose qui vous ait surpris depuis que vous travaillez ici\u-225\u-225H

Oui, c'est le fait que les vacances sont longues. C'est génial que malgré ça, les entreprises ou la société tout entière tiennent tout de même. Ce n'est pas parce que tout le monde prend congé que toutes les entreprises sont en congés, n'est ce pas ? Donc personne n'est embêté par ça. Je trouve ça bien. Ca n'arriverait pas au Japon.

Question 12\u-230\u-230FAvez-vous quelque chose à ajouter\u-225\u-225H

La première raison pour laquelle BOOKOFF a voulu ouvrir des boutiques à l'étranger, c'est tout d'abord pour les Japonais qui vivaient à l'étranger. Au départ, nous voulions fournir des livres en japonais à moitié prix par rapport au prix locaux aux Japonais qui vivaient à l'étranger. C'est pourquoi nous en avons créé dans plusieurs pays. Nous en avons implanté aux États-Unis, sur la côte est à New York, à Los Angeles, à Hawaii, et puis ... en Europe il n'y a qu'à Paris, et puis au Canada. Cela a commencé parce que nous voulions fournir à ces clients des livres un peu moins chers.

Ca fait bientôt 10 ans qu'on a ouvert le premier magasin. Depuis qu'on a ouvert la boutique d'Hawaii ça fait 10 ans. Mais maintenant, notre politique n'est plus d'ouvrir des boutiques seulement pour les japonais, mais aussi pour des clients Français, ou des clients Américains qui ont commencé à venir chez nous, ce qui nous a amené à utiliser des livres locaux. Par conséquent, ici par exemple on utilise des livres francophones, aux États-Unis, des livres en Anglais, en Coréen, ... c'est tout je pense.
Notre prochain objectif, c'est de développer nos activités avec des livres locaux, tout en appliquant le même modèle qu'au Japon, dans les pays concernés. A Paris, nous voulons utiliser des livres français et développer nos activités.
C'est pour cette raison que ce magasin est un peu comme un prototype. Ca va faire deux ans qu'il est ouvert, en tant que prototype, on tente de voir comment se passe la gestion des biens locaux, réfléchir à la disposition des livres. Nous aimerions en ouvrir un autre dans 6 mois136(*).

David Vandepontseele : Ah bon ? Où ça ?
Yoshinaga Toshihiko : Nous ne savons pas encore
David Vandepontseele : Dans les autres pays, est-ce que vous traitez des livres locaux ?
Yoshinaga Toshihiko : Le mois prochain, nous allons ouvrir un point de vente comme celui-ci. A San Diego, aux États-Unis, il y a très grand magasin aussi, quelle taille déjà ? ... Un magasin de 1000m². La moitié est consacrée à des livres en Anglais et l'autre à des livres en Japonais. La section pour les livres en Anglais est donc un peu plus grande que ce magasin. Nous allons faire l'expérience aux États-Unis, et ici en France. Nous pensons prochainement pouvoir ouvrir un autre magasin dans chacun de ces pays.

* 133 Il voulait tres probablement dire \u12501\u12501ÉtÉ%oÉ«%o«ÉXX

* 134 L'interview s'étant fait dans le sous sol de BOOKOFF Quatre Septembre, quand il fait allusion à « l'autre boutique » il réfère à la boutique de BOOKOFF Opéra, et quand il fait allusion à « cette boutique », il réfère à BOOKOFF Quatre Septembre.

* 135 « 1000m² » a été prononcé en Français.

* 136 Des rumeurs courent à ce sujet. Apparemment les deux dernières employées de BOOKOFF seraient destinées à ce prochain magasin qui serait implanté à Bastille.

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